SessKagTumblr

I personally have nothing against this, but I wanted to share just in case.

Are they showing the art work without permission?

It has the given credit on the page, that doesn't say they asked to use the pictures though but still they gave proper credit.

Are they posting artwork from here? LIke, as in, copying, pasting, and in general taking without permission? That's not cool.

Cool! I like finding my art places, as long as credit is given and the person isn't claiming it as their own, and in this instance, that criterion has been met.

To me it means that someone liked my drawing/painting enough to share it with others. And it's kind of like free promotion.

I don't know. Yes, credit is given, and the site says something along the lines of "if it's your art and you want it down let us know", but imo this isn't the same as gaining permission.

i didn't give permission. One of my biggest bet peeves is people not asking for something, b/c honestly i would support this if someone had ASKED BEFORE if they could put the work in something like this.

*likes it* BUT *knows many others probably weren't asked either*

I'm not an artist - I'm a writer; but personally I don't really think it's a big deal. If the person was claiming rights to the artwork then I would see it as a major problem. I mean if someone were to create a tumblr for fanfics and verbatim take my story and post it - as long as they gave me the due credit I'd be chill with it.

I agree with Kayka - it is like free promotion.

The problem I am seeing, they HAVEN'T always been crediting. I am on page 41 and I just found Shrii's art with no credit whatsoever. There is also a bunch of Janey-Jane's here too with no credit.

If they wish to keep the art up, they should take it upon themselves to properly go back and credit EACH piece. If they are not willing to do that, then they are much better off taking the art down and re-submitting it properly.

Not asking to begin with is bad enough, but then not even maintaining a standard of credit consistently through the blog is even more of an insult to the artists. Is it so hard to post the artist's name with the artwork they did?

Pages 13-53 are all creditless. At least on their posts, I didn't do much clicking around.

I agree with Terri-tots, I do alot of art myself, though very little fanart, but I would not in good conscience approve of anyone taking my art from an online gallery and reposting it without my permission elsewhere. It is one a compliment to have one's work advertised online, but one must acknowledge that many artists create their own online portfolios either on a personal website to advertise their own work, or on sites such as Lothlorien, or Deviantart that they maintain themselves, uploading artwork, placing said works online for everyone to see. The artist has control of where their work is posted, and how it is depicted in these galleries, if other people even in the Sesskag tumbler blog take that work and redistribute it without permission, even if credit is given, it could be interpreted as theft however unintentional.

Some artists also might not appreciate the advertisement of their works anywhere else but in their own personal galleries. One must consider that it is the artist that has the right to confer onto others if their work is to be re-produced, or re-used, or re-posted on other websites.

It is a simple thing, a courtesy to email an artist and to ask if their artwork could be featured on any other website or blog. It is not in my opinion polite in any sense of the word for this basic right to be ignored even on the premiss of free advertisement. If anything it shows a lack of netiquette, of courtesy, and respect to the artist who made the original work or works of art, regardless of credit being given at all.

It is a simple thing to ask permission, and a greater compliment to be granted permission by the artist for taking this simple courtesy and honouring it.

~ Pyre

I guess I don't see the difference in this then in when Dokuga has new members and they grab a random picture of the internet to make their profile picture, or when a picture is shared on facebook and the artist isn't given credit, or when people use random pictures in their about me's and what not. Someone MADE that image or took that image and credit isn't given.

I don't see the difference in writing or in drawing. If someone had post my work elsewhere without my knowing then I'd be flattered that someone thought my work was good enough to post somewhere else.

You'd be okay with someone posting your writing with no credit or mention whatsoever?

Posting something without a credit is perceived as claiming it. If someone posts something to dA, the assumption is that they drew it/wrote it themselves since it is a personal gallery site (much as tumblr is)

And yes, I think people who use googled anime pictures on facebook are just as bad as people who are re-blogging, reposting, re-upping art without proper credits. I get on my friends *ALL THE TIME* for it. Personally I do not do it (Unless I am sharing from an artist's post directly. Like if Rootsie posts a picture she drew, I will share it because the credits, links and info are all shared along with it.) and it really isn't that hard to do.

Unfortunately people just assume it all falls under the category of fair use because it is on the internet (which it doesn't, a little research would prove it) and the sheer NUMBER of people who do it makes it impossible to stop altogether.

So it becomes a question of : "If all your friends robbed the liquor store and got away with it, does that make it okay for you to as well?"

The answer is obviously no, and if people would just *ask* you'd be amazed at how willing an artist/writer would be to allow them to re-post it as long as the proper credit and mentions are given.

I realize everyone's tolerance in this given situation is different. Having had my art thefted, claimed, and having had to fight with people, website domain people, etc, I have learned that it is better to just make it clear up front with watermarks and writing "DO NOT REPOST/REDISTRIBUTE WITHOUT PERMISSION" than to get into a situation where you have to *prove* that you drew/created/compiled a particular work because some kid online decides "OMG SO KAWAII IMMA POST EEEEEET"

Because those fights are incredibly frustrating and exhausting, and tend to lead to a *LOT* of drama.

I would like to point out that, where it concerns profile icons, or banners, the plagiarism rules still apply. If anyone finds a plagiarized image as a profile icon or in a banner, we need to know!

It is relatively impossible to police every single member on the site but, when found, we do remove, or request the removal of, plagiarized arts in profile icons, profiles and banners. Thus, I think you can see that Dokuga does not, in any way, condone the lifting of art works without permission for use on our site.

I think that our feelings here run similar to that of the artists on our site... if it's not credited and permission was not granted, DON'T LIFT IT!

We've had several members banned for creating AMVs with uncredited, unauthorized art lifted from this site. We do not condone the use or re-posting of any of the art found here... it is the property of our artists and not for re-publication. We feel strongly enough that we will ban a member who is found to be knowingly posting other people's stories and/or art on other sites without permission or attribution.

You will note that our icon gallery hosts many works that are credited to the original artists, and that we have permission to use, as icons here on the site. Any of our banners using art from our artists do so with their permission and they are always credited.

The general lackadaisical attitude toward the pilfering of both art and stories posted on fan sites is a subject of great controversy and drama for many. It stirs strong emotions and, as such, should be approached in a calm, respectful fashion. I think all of our members on this thread have so far done so beautifully, sharing their diverse opinions. I hope that discussion continues in a similar vein.

Thank you all for your cooperation!!

~~Wiccan~~

Fair point, for me it's just the principle of the thing. I'd ask first by emailing the artist, assuming of course that they're contactable via email, a journal post, or even via an IM. If I couldn't contact them I wouldn't pursue the issue.

Internet users in the past and present will and have reused images online without permission, sharing in blogs, or on Facebook (not sure of the social networking sites, I have no experience there as I don't use them, but thank you for sharing that, it does make sense too what with the larger internet audience). While I would not approve of the use of images without permission you do raise valid points, it has occurred and does occur regardless in various websites, and online communities.

Thank you for making me aware of another side of this discussion, I appreciate the input, it has made me think about this in a broader sense. I cannot vouch for what other internet users have done, past and present in terms of using images or fanfiction. I can only state what I have done, and would do pertaining to seeking permission first (and I would sit by nervously twiddling my thumbs until I got either confirmation or rejection from the artist).

Fun.

~ Pyre

Terri - The owner clearly states she owns nothing used on the site. So yeah - I'd probably be chill. I have had ADLC stolen and reposted multiple times and it KILLS me because they do not state they don't own it. Then again - I used to RP back when Myspace was cool and when you RP'ed people used to take pictures, edit them, and repost them.

Same thing with writing - take it, edit, repost it - so I do have a broader view on this and am fairly laid back. However, don't excuse that for lack of caring because I am sure that if she didn't have that note and she did not credit the artists I'd be in a tizzy as well.

I do see where you're coming from though! And I appreciate your views on a subject that I don't often broach. I also see that if the owner is taking images that clearly state do not repost without permission then it's a problem. If I state don'y repost something then I expect to be obeyed because I'm power hungry that way.

Pyreite - I'm glad you can see the other side of the fence and understand where I am coming from. People repost all the time - and I guess it honestly just doesn't register to me as huge deal where art is concerned because I'm not an artist and I've become desensitized to the reposting of other's artwork - not that I do it. Because I personally just don't repost things. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'd ratehr try my hand at it.

Wicacan - I don't want anyone in trouble! I was just trying to make a point >->''

Well, I have a friend who runs a blog like that, only it's with a different pairing. She'll post artwork, stories (well, the summaries and links to the stories, along with a personal review to each), music videos and the like, but she always gives credit AND links to the original sources (unless sources are no longer available to link, then in that case she'll just give the name of the artists). Thanks to this blog, I've seen artwork and stories of my OTP that I haven't seen before. And I think this might actually help to prevent art-theft (for this pairing, anyway), as those who follow the blog will know who the original creators of the works are, and if they see the works posted elsewhere, they'll question and (if right) report it.

So, I can agree with a "sharing" blog if it's done in the proper way. To post things uncredited and unsourced, though... that's just wrong. And irritating. But mostly wrong.

I know how some of the artist feel. It may sound a little hypocritical because we are using characters that don't belong to us, but have anyone considered that all they have to do is change the face. Then it'll be all theirs (the artist). So technically this art is very much original, meaning you should not touch it without their permission first.

Because I am in this elite art class in my high school I constantly have my own art in art shows and I always express that even though I want people to see it I don't want pictures of my art taken.

In today's world so many people can easily steal pictures and call it their own (I know this person didn't). We could not find out until it is to late or never find out at all. Like now for example (except I am not one of them), I bet some of the artist that did those pictures still doesn't know.

Art is not like a story. A story can be similar to another, (as some art can be too) but I have never seen art like the art I see on Dokuga. The artist here are amazing.

Honey-Bee wrote:
Well, I have a friend who runs a blog like that, only it's with a different pairing. She'll post artwork, stories (well, the summaries and links to the stories, along with a personal review to each), music videos and the like, but she always gives credit AND links to the original sources (unless sources are no longer available to link, then in that case she'll just give the name of the artists).

There's a big difference in your friend's blog, and what this site is. Fair Use, when you can get away with it, is a wonderful thing. Because there is the commentary, is the reason why your friends site falls much closer to the "legal" edge than this site. (US anyway, could still be completely illegal in some other country, or a non-issue in another).

WiccanMethuselah wrote:
would like to point out that, where it concerns profile icons, or banners, the plagiarism rules still apply. If anyone finds a plagiarized image as a profile icon or in a banner, we need to know!

It is relatively impossible to police every single member on the site but, when found, we do remove, or request the removal of, plagiarized arts in profile icons, profiles and banners. Thus, I think you can see that Dokuga does not, in any way, condone the lifting of art works without permission for use on our site.

And I wish y'all never did that. Yeah it makes sense to remove something if you know it shouldn't be there, but now you are responsible for all content since you've taken it upon yourself to remove stuff without any legal notice from the real copyright holder. Oh well... what's done is done.

TorturedRomance wrote:
I know how some of the artist feel. It may sound a little hypocritical because we are using characters that don't belong to us ....

Yes the entire genera of fanart/fanfiction... fan whatever ... does trounce in the face of Copyright law. But really, none of fanart/fanfiction would be created if we didn't ignore this small little fact. If we go only by Japanese Copyright law, it's authors life + 50yrs. For corporations, it's 50yrs. And that's assuming that a new copyright wasn't received when published in the US since it's a translation (120yrs from date of creation for corp, Authors life + 70 yrs.). Then you can't forget about the Translations of the Anime which would be yet another Copyright term....

So yeah, I'll happily trounce on this bit of copyright law. Besides, bottom of every page gives credit where due for the world:

INUYASHA © Rumiko Takahashi/Shogakukan • Yomiuri TV • Sunrise 2000

--

Now... yeah... back to umm... the site... yes the site. Over all, it doesn't look bad to me. I completely expect some images to disappear if any artist does decide that they don't want them posting the artwork. Nature of the net and the frickin' legal quagmire that is IP law.

-J

NOTE: I am not a lawyer. Everything said is from experience, reading, whatever... not schooling. Take it as you will, but not as real legal advice. Yeah...

This is why I felt the need to share the site. I was sure some artists would not appreciate this and would ask for their art to be taken down.

To me, personally, posting fanart (now doujinshi) is a complicated matter. It is SO easy to modify/crop an image that is almost sad. When I post something, deep inside I am already suffering because I know some people would use it without permission or try to claim it as theirs. It matters little if it was out of ignorance or consciously, it's still the same.

This is why I 'google' my nickname from time to time and check internet sites, which is how I found this. So, I encourage artists/writers to do this from time to time in a way to keep 'tabs' in their/our works. This way if any of us find something 'fishy' we can share it.

Thanks for everything, and sorry for bringing this up, though I think it was still necessary and I felt honor-bound to share.

Jeni, don't feel sorry! It's a wonderful helpful thing that you did to post about the tumbler blog! I didn't even know it existed, and probably some of our fellow Dokugans, writers, and artists didn't know about it either!

So it was good thing that you posted about it, and informed everyone about it so that they could go and check it out for themselves.

Yes there are various issues over the blog but we've had the opportunity here to express views, and discuss things, which is also good. I personally would rather be informed about things like this than not, and it's also made me more aware about Dokuga site rules too (thanks Wiccan XD).

Thank you for taking the time to let us know about it.

~ Pyre

I have, since becoming a chat mod WAY back in the days of Kpants, wanted to get Dokuga a watermark for it's art. I need to go bug J about that. :3 if he can do it... I'll have to ask a few artist here for their input so we can get something Dokuga-related to make it so art is harder to steal from here.

Hmm.. I see. I only made it through the first few pages the first time because tumblr decided to be cantankerous. Because it’s tumblr, which is completely based on sharing and reblogging, I don’t assume that anyone is claiming to have created a specific work simply by posting it, unless stated otherwise in the post.

I’ve googled my usernames before and found my art –credited but permission was never given- in various, random places. Because of this, I’m reasonably sure that others have posted it elsewhere without any crediting. I really don’t mind if I’m not asked, as long as credit is given. (I believe this relatively lax sentiment comes from my work with scientific research and writing, where you cite sources for absolutely everything that is not your own original research or conclusion. But you are never expected to explicitly ask for permission beforehand from the original authors.)

I’ve come to accept that once I post something on the internet, I lose a great deal of control over it. The alternative is to never post anything and keep it all to myself. I find that thought incredibly pessimistic and depressing. I’d rather share my work and risk having it stolen, than let it collect dust with me as its only admirer.