Hello, I'm not sure if this would be rude to ask on Dokuga, but I figure since everyone is part of the same fandom I was wondering if someone could point me to other Sess/Kag fandom sites, perhaps for more mature readers? And preferably with some type of 'quality control'? I think I may have exhausted Spark and Fanfiction.net ...

Anna wrote:
Hello, I'm not sure if this would be rude to ask on Dokuga, but I figure since everyone is part of the same fandom I was wondering if someone could point me to other Sess/Kag fandom sites, perhaps for more mature readers? And preferably with some type of 'quality control'? I think I may have exhausted Spark and Fanfiction.net ...

I'm speechless.

I'm genuinely hoping that you did not mean this query to come out sounding like it did. I'm also hoping that you might, perhaps, qualify what you mean by "more mature readers," along with your definition of "quality control."

If you mean what *I* think you mean, I seriously doubt you're going to find that anywhere. Period.

Most of us here are rather proud of this site, supported as it is by our members, with their donations helping us keep it online, and their contributions in stories and fan art filling our archives. We strive to maintain some of the most stringent standards of any site that *I've* seen so far in the fan fiction world. I'll be greatly interested in hearing where you feel we've fallen down on the job.
:?
~~WiccanMethuselah~~
Site Administrator

I mean M rated, and I also mean a site where it'd give tags that'll tell me what I'm getting into. I honestly, don't think my question came off as inflammatory, and I kind of feel like you are using your moderator status to intimidate me. I don't think this post was insulting, I never said that Dokuga didn't have quality control. I was simply asking for more sites. I'm glad that this website is fan supported and fan based, and although I've had some issues before, I was politely corrected by other members and understand what this site is about.

However, I did have an issue when I read a fanfic that including some pretty heavy imagery even for me to stomach. I had no warning beside the M rating. I was wondering if there were sites that had tags such as *abuse* or *violence* cause at least then I'd have some type of preparation.

I'm also not sure if you meant for your comment to come off as intimidating and passive aggressive as I can assure you in no where in my post did I even remotely make a statement negatively about Dokuga. As the Site Administrator I also understand that you can delete members, and if you really feel as if I'm a negative member, then I respect if you decide to ban me from the site. However, if you meant to make me feel as bad as I did after reading your comment, then it's something I'd rather not partake in.

I would also like to add that I do sincerely apologize if you think I'm being offensive, rude, or derogatory about Dokuga, as I can assure you that I appreciate all the work you guys have put in to make it a great place for Sess/Kag fans. I am simply asking if you guys could point me to other sites that may not be as well known, that also houses fanfiction as I am still new to the fandom and still trying to figure things out. But honestly, after reading your reply I felt attacked, which I've never really experienced before. Although I can understand since this site is basically based on your and other contributors hard work, but I really didn't mean for the comment to be construed that way.

We have 1,303 stories on this site that are rated MA.

We have 968 stories that are rated M.

We have a number of tags that refer to things that one might want to consider before reading:

Angst
Dark
Erotica
Tragedy
Kink

Given that the authors are required to choose their genre from among the tags provided, it is up to them to describe what lies within. My apologies if our tags are not descriptive to the point that AdultFanFiction's tags are, but this IS an all-ages site. We simply cannot have stories tagged with certain phrases, visible to the general public, that we would not allow written into the stories available to our younger members.

I am sorry that you read so much into my response, however, your query came across as though Dokuga was somehow beneath your notice. Other members seeing your post came to me expressing their feeling that it was, indeed, rude. As an Administrator, I make it a point to address concerns such as these as soon as possible to avoid unpleasantness.

The only other site to my knowledge that has the level of tagging to which you are referring would probably be AdultFanFiction. Mediaminer might also have an increased level of tagging, but it is harder to find the Sesshoumaru/Kagome pairing. You could try Google to see if there are other sites that might have the features you desire. Good luck in your quest.

~~Wiccan~~

Thank you for the response, and I again do apologize if my post made others feel bad or was rude. I will keep this is mind the next time if I post. I certainly don't mean to create unnecessary drama.

Anna Wrote:

However, I did have an issue when I read a fanfic that including some pretty heavy imagery even for me to stomach. I had no warning beside the M rating.

I know what you mean. Some authors will warn about possible squick factors in an A/N. It's a polite thing to do, but not everyone does or knows they should.

Make sure you read the summary and any A/N carefully and click away if you come across anything objectional.

Other sites do have Sess/Kag, but their filters aren't any better than the ones here, and in some cases, they're worse.

www.angelfire.com/sk3/sesskag/archive.htm

thereadershavechosen.eternflame.com/forum/index.php?board=78.0

www.allsystemsred.org/ (Multi-anime site, but some Sess/Kag is there.)

www.freewebs.com/twistedpaths/archives.html

inuyasha-fanfiction.com/ (Inuyasha site, but some Sess/Kag is there.)

dokuga-contest.livejournal.com/ (LiveJournal sister site to this one, but some writers there don't post here.)

www.deviantart.com/ (Browse literature for Sesshoumaru.)

Hope this helps, good luck!

I would just like to point out one thing here, as one of those writers.

There is a reason that some writers, like myself, do not include "tags" or "warnings" for every possible little squick, tick, fear, phobia, or potentially traumatizing bit of information in their story. It's called plot - something which would be ruined rather easily by "warning" you ahead of time as to what happens.

Many of my stories are rated Mature, Restricted, or above.
Many of my stories are full of violence, death, tragedy, angst, horror, and outright complete terror.

It would entirely ruin the point of the story to put a warning label above every single chapter.

I am intending to make you uncomfortable, frightened, and yes I want to make you cry. That is the entire point of the story.

You don't go to a horror film already knowing when and where something will happen. Alfred Hitchcock didn't say "be forewarned that if you did not once have a phobia of birds before viewing this film you will after" before The Birds nor did he warn those with a fear of heights (a common fear) before Vertigo. I have to wonder how many times V.C. Andrews was admonished by her fans for Flowers in the Attic. After all, there is no warning label on it and it is merely stashed away in the "Romance" section of most libraries, innocently sitting there among the roses and lace.

In addition to this, I would have to wonder how any one writer could possibly label for every single trigger that their reader might have. The human mind is vast and complex. Our species can easily form fear from nothing.

Life does not come with warning labels. Life is sudden, unexpected, and full of experiences that we cannot always guard ourselves from. I would honestly have to wonder why you would even want to.

I think we need to take a step back a little bit. I get both sides very well.

First, from the perspective of a writer who has written controversial work, you can't warn for everything. It has the capacity of ruining the suspense and essentially you're creating spoilers. Now a few people don't mind spoilers when they read stories, but I think most want to be surprised. So let's say you're going to have a character death in a story. On the contingency that it's well-placed and not done for pure shock, most of your audience won't mind not seeing it coming, especially if it's some grand, awesome death, which I think most characters long for in some way. There will always be a few people who would have preferred a warning, but as a writer, if I have to make a choice between a small percentage with hurt feelings and ruining that part of the story for everyone else, I will choose everyone else. I'm sorry, but it's to preserve the integrity of the story. For every movie out there, for every book out there, there will always be someone who hated it and wishes they knew so before they started it.

Now I think what Anna might be saying has less to do with that and more to do with the skill set that some fanfiction writers have. It has to do with emotionally damaging writing that our greener writers put out. Fanfiction is filled with authors who are just starting to write. Many are very young and they've never written plots before or characterizations. They just have ideas, sometimes very dark ones. Perhaps they feel bad, angry or sad, and their way of getting that out is by writing it and sharing it.

Being a fanfiction writer doesn't mean that you have professional aspirations. There's an amalgam of motivations on any site. Some people want to hone their craft so that one day they'll be published, and then there are some that don't care. They're writing for themselves and for what they're feeling right now.

There are sites that control for quality in the sense of grammar and spelling, but you will most likely not find anyone who controls content. I cannot think of any fanfiction site that says, "unless your actual story-writing ability is this good, you cannot post here." It would be a pain to enforce, and I can't think of any writers who would want to be scrutinized that closely.

I can completely agree with most of what you have said, ladybattousai.

Some writers are still very unskilled, that is true. (I would hazard to say, however, that any new writer who can so move someone with their words will likely become a great writer someday. We've all started at that point, after all.)

I'm not sure if I can agree on the idea that you must only kill off a character in "well-placed" settings that are not "done for pure shock" but I think that is probably just because I wrote a zombie fic just last week. (Zombie stories are just full of shock value moments. )

What you say is true, though, that for every story or movie out there someone will be upset for having read or watched it. That is just the nature of storytelling.

Unfortunately, I think the biggest issue I have with the concept of "warnings" and the like is the idea that the writer is now in charge of caring for the reader's emotions. This is a new concept that only developed after the internet came about. Before that there was no real way to know if what you were getting into might bother you. Now that we have the internet and you can filter through things with the click of a mouse people seem to think that should somehow change. I've heard this argument for over a decade now and I still cannot agree.

When I go to read something I want the writer to move me. I want them to show me something that I might have never considered before. I don't want to be coddled and protected from the world - if I wanted that I wouldn't go seeking fantasy. I just can't imagine a world where I go to pick up a book and there is a giant sticker on the front warning me of the potential content. It seems so silly and contradictory.

There was a fic just the other day, right here on Dokuga, that really made my stomach churn. It brought out memories of events I really didn't want to recall. I had a hard time contemplating why someone might enjoy that story, it's true. I realized that the writer probably wants to move me to feel that way as it was a dark story about touchy subjects that most would feel a moderate amount of discomfort at. I respected that. I did not, however, feel like I was entitled to some sort of warning. I did not feel like the writer was in charge of my emotions. They are mine and no one but me is in charge of them. I clicked the back button and moved on with my life.

Anna wrote:

However, I did have an issue when I read a fanfic that including some pretty heavy imagery even for me to stomach. I had no warning beside the M rating. I was wondering if there were sites that had tags such as *abuse* or *violence* cause at least then I'd have some type of preparation.

This is what my comment was referring to when I said some authors politely warn about squick factors in an A/N. How that got turned into warning "for every possible little squick, tick, fear, phobia, or potentially traumatizing bit of information in their story", I'm not sure.

I do not expect a plot synopsis or explicit spoilers, but nor do I like to be ambushed by things I find personally repulsive. There are common subjects and scenarios in the fanfiction world that are commonly warned about. I won't list them here since this forum is PG rated. It is just common courtesy to give a potential reader the choice as to whether or not they want to put those images or ideas into their mind. It has nothing to do with plot development or spoiling surprises.

zandrellia wrote:

You don't go to a horror film already knowing when and where something will happen.

No, but when I purchase the ticket, I know I've purchased one for a horror movie. I'm expecting horror. I already know The Birds is going to be about birds and if I have a fear of birds, I doubt I'll go and expect fluffy bunnies.

Mokomiko wrote:

zandrellia wrote:

You don't go to a horror film already knowing when and where something will happen.

No, but when I purchase the ticket, I know I've purchased one for a horror movie. I'm expecting horror. I already know The Birds is going to be about birds and if I have a fear of birds, I doubt I'll go and expect fluffy bunnies.[/quote]

That is my point entirely. We already have ratings and genres.

You don't go into a mature fic that is labeled tragedy and expect a fluffy happily ever after. You don't go into an adult fic and expect them to stop at second base like shy little kids. (At least not without continuing later!) You don't go into a dark fic and expect it to be sunshine and unicorns. You already know what to expect.

Warning for "abuse" or "violence" is vague and already covered by genres like dark, angst, and tragedy - not to mention that the OP mentioned the fic was rated M. What else do you expect?

By wanting labels for things like death or other potentially traumatizing (and specific) subjects you are basically asking the writer to give more details, often plot developing details, about their story.

I don't think anyone is talking about spoilers for every possible event that might be off-putting. I've chosen character death, because it's one where a reader wrote me and was disturbed. That's the only time that I can remember that someone requested a warning. It was a warning that I couldn't give unfortunately, because it would have ruined the story.

As for "horror stories", readers are generally prepared for them to have a variety of disturbing imagery. It's a horror story. When I spoke of well-placed and not for shock value death, I wasn't referring to a genuine horror story. I wasn't referring to zombies and the gore they're responsible for. I think we all know that what's being talked about doesn't include that. I don't think there is any reason for you, zandrellia, to feel that what you write is being included. I think if you're writing horror in the truest sense, then it's obvious that you're going to be creating imagery that's going to be violent and disturbing, and perhaps silly if you go the Evil Dead route.

Again, I'm talking about a certain kind of inexperienced writing. Angsty stories where characters are being emotionally tortured for the sake of emotional torture. Personally, I don't mind seeing characters being dragged through the mud, so long as when they get up, they're cleaner than when they fell down. But to achieve that, the author has to have it mind and not all do. And that's fine, but for me, it's taxing when it doesn't happen.

ladybattousai wrote:
I don't think anyone is talking about spoilers for every possible event that might be off-putting. I've chosen character death, because it's one where a reader wrote me and was disturbed. That's the only time that I can remember that someone requested a warning. It was a warning that I couldn't give unfortunately, because it would have ruined the story.

As for "horror stories", readers are generally prepared for them to have a variety of disturbing imagery. It's a horror story. When I spoke of well-placed and not for shock value death, I wasn't referring to a genuine horror story. I wasn't referring to zombies and the gore they're responsible for. I think we all know that what's being talked about doesn't include that. I don't think there is any reason for you, zandrellia, to feel that what you write is being included. I think if you're writing horror in the truest sense, then it's obvious that you're going to be creating imagery that's going to be violent and disturbing, and perhaps silly if you go the Evil Dead route.

Again, I'm talking about a certain kind of inexperienced writing. Angsty stories where characters are being emotionally tortured for the sake of emotional torture. Personally, I don't mind seeing characters being dragged through the mud, so long as when they get up, they're cleaner than when they fell down. But to achieve that, the author has to have it mind and not all do. And that's fine, but for me, it's taxing when it doesn't happen.

I only bring up my own stuff because well... you should just see my inbox some days. (That and I figured you were just talking in a broader general sense, including all writing.) I've had people request some of the strangest warnings and totally freak out over things that I'd been leading up to for many thousand words prior.

I believe the inexperienced angsty stories where characters are just tortured but never really grow simply shows a lack of maturity on the writer's part. Not that there is anything wrong with that. It probably is just that the writer is wrapped up in their own emotions and merely conveying them through the characters but has no idea how to develop the plot past that point as they have yet to go through that transformation themselves. (Which I believe you mentioned already.) I can agree that those stories are difficult to get through - like pulling teeth. Still, I think it would be even more ridiculous to expect them to put up some kind of label on it as it is almost guaranteed that they will not see a need for it. (They don't realize that something else should happen yet.)

I'd die if I read an A/N that said: "I just woke up this morning and wanted to torture them endlessly. If you don't like that, don't read! Enjoy!"

zandrellia wrote:

Warning for "abuse" or "violence" is vague and already covered by genres like dark, angst, and tragedy - not to mention that the OP mentioned the fic was rated M. What else do you expect?

I expect not to be blindsided by common squick factors without warning in an M fic. Google 'common squicks' if you don't know what they are since I can't list them in a PG forum.

An M-rated fic can be angsty, dark and tragic without sex, violence and abuse. The deadly slow spiral into alcoholism or being driven mentally ill by an evil antagonist is dark, tragic and angsty, without needing additional warning.

This site lists M rating as follows:

M - All users ages 16 and up may read and post M rated fan fiction


Not suitable for children or teens below the age of 16 with possible strong but non-explicit adult themes, references to violence, and strong coarse language.

Perhaps the fic she read wasn't rated high enough.

I thing the thing I have a hard time judging is the level of "Horror" and "Angst" a fic contains. Because Zandrellia, I freakin' LOVE zombies and movies like Saw. (Btw, Zombies+Inuyasha=Win. I would actually like to see a movie like that. lol) And the fic that I read was marked M. But I also think that there are different levels of horror and angst, just like some horror movies that just are on a whole different level. I can actually stand a lot of angst and squlech, but a few particular fics where SO horrifying (as in it probably wouldn't even happen in gitmo) that I think they need their own category. It kinda just happened one chapter. And afterwards I felt a little sick and nauseas.

When I read something, most of the time I know what I'm getting myself into, if I didn't like it, I'll click back. But I think there's a threshold (I'm not sure where this gray area lies) that a fic crosses, that's just too much and probably needs a rating higher than M.

What is "common" for one person is not necessarily for the next.

Yes, an M-rated fic can be angsty, dark and tragic without sex, violence and abuse. That is true. An M-rated fic can be all of those things, too. You can't pick and choose which it can be and which it cannot because there are few limitations.

Yes, it says "with possible strong but non-explicit adult themes, references to violence, and strong coarse language." However, there again is the difference in what each person may consider "explicit". It used to be considered "explicit" to show a woman's nipples but it is now considered acceptable for those 17+ so long as it is not purely sexual in nature. (Even that is now debatable.) Some people are offended by words that others feel are common place. Different things offend different people. So if the writer is following the rules of the site then it really is left to the reader to decide if it is too explicit for them or not. It cannot be expected that the writer will know what each reader will be upset by. (Although, as a writer, that would be nice but it is really not possible, sadly.)

Perhaps the fic wasn't rated high enough, that's true, but that is certainly no reason to request to be shown somewhere that might enable them to filter through stories in a way which is any different than Dokuga. That would then be cause to send a polite note to the writer and perhaps to the staff of the site, suggesting a rating change.

Anna wrote:
I thing the thing I have a hard time judging is the level of "Horror" and "Angst" a fic contains. Because Zandrellia, I freakin' LOVE zombies and movies like Saw. (Btw, Zombies+Inuyasha=Win. I would actually like to see a movie like that. lol) And the fic that I read was marked 18+. But I also think that there are different levels of horror and angst, just like some horror movies that just are on a whole different level. I can actually stand a lot of angst and squlech, but a few particular fics where SO horrifying (as in it probably wouldn't even happen in gitmo) that I think they need their own category. It kinda just happened one chapter. And afterwards I felt a little sick and nauseas.

When I read something, most of the time I know what I'm getting myself into, if I didn't like it, I'll click back. But I think there's a threshold (I'm not sure where this gray area lies) that a fic crosses, that's just too much and probably needs a rating higher than 18+.

Again, I think this is just personal preference.

Some people can't watch any horror films. Others can only watch a few. I, personally, am not too fond of hack-and-slash gore flicks but I wouldn't expect a special label on it or a special rating category for it just because I am not fond of mindless killing. (At least, not in movies.)

I can understand feeling like something might have gone to an extreme for you. I just feel like this concept of making labels within labels may just end up spiraling into a never ending cycle of fear of the unknown. When does it end? When are the ratings and genres that we have going to be good enough? Whose opinion is the best opinion to base the ratings on? Who decides what is "too much" and what is not?

I think it could just keep going on forever and eventually nobody will be happy.

I know in movies, I won't watch anything in horror that's "unrated" since it means that it's usually on a totally different level. I also understand that it will be impossible to make labels within labels, but I think perhaps one more category is needed for extreme fics. Although it would be hard to judge what should be put in there, I think it could be left up to the author, most are responsible enough to know if what their writing is not for everyone.

(Clarification, in my original post, I was asking for websites that are similar to aff.net, then I realized that aff.net is the only place where that happens, which is fine, as I got a good head start into other sites someone suggested...I just discovered livejournal fandoms..)

I think it's safe to say that higher rating is probably never going to be established. It's not going to divide the age groups any further which is the whole point of the rating system.

The tags are really as developed as they can be. We could add more, but it's all up to the discretion of the author whether they're used. They could decide not to include them and really, we don't punish for that.

And lastly, I think most of you guys are on the same page, but you're not quite seeing it. I'm just putting that out there in case anyone feels even the slightest bit hurt.

An extreme label... I don't know. I have something that could be classified as that, and I don't think I'd want to attach that label. I want people to give my story a try and not automatically turn away. They can stop reading it any time they want, but to give them a reason to not even try... I don't like that.

zandrellia wrote:

What is "common" for one person is not necessarily for the next.

I believe you understand what this word means in the context it was used. If not, I can define the word 'common'.

Yes, I want more than a generic genre and rating system. I do not want a can with a white label that just says 'Beans'. Are they kidney beans, butter beans, pinto beans, jelly beans, pork-n-beans, Northern beans, green beans or what?

As for movies and books. We do get a very good idea what they will be about and how that subject matter will be treated. I do not walk into a movie called Saw and expect a thriller like The Birds. Why? Because the promotors show and tell me exactly what will be in Saw, without showing me the entire movie. Book jackets do the same.

No, the author does not 'have to' provide warnings (hence my common courtesy remark) but it could improve how many people read their fic and cut down on the number of complaints they receive from readers who didn't like the 'surprise' they got. I personally don't complain, but neither do I continue to read anything by that writer.

ladybattousai wrote:
I think it's safe to say that higher rating is probably never going to be established. It's not going to divide the age groups any further which is the whole point of the rating system.

The tags are really as developed as they can be. We could add more, but it's all up to the discretion of the author whether they're used. They could decide not to include them and really, we don't punish for that.

And lastly, I think most of you guys are on the same page, but you're not quite seeing it. I'm just putting that out there in case anyone feels even the slightest bit hurt.



You summarized that perfectly!

Oh and, all this stuff is close to many of your hearts, so please remember that as you write your responses.

What exactly is it that you are wanting an extreme filter for? You like zombies and don't seem to have a problem with violence, from what I have read. Is it about something of an extreme sexual nature? That part is unclear to me.

Secondly, I noticed you were linked to adultfanfiction.net. Let me just say in warning as someone who works on both that site and dokuga, if you have issues with extreme's not being 100% labeled in a fic, I'd recommend not venturing over there. On AFF we have many more tags for fictions, but nothing that covers every little thing. General yes, but that's it. And I promise you the things you will find on AFF are FAR worse than anything you will come across on Dokuga or FFN. If you are squicked by violence, sexual extreme's, or anything else considered out of the norm, AFF is probably not the site for you. However, if you do decide to try it out, tread carefully. Anything goes there, and I do mean ANYTHING. Please keep that in mind if you check out that site.

I also deal in the fiction area of this site, as well as AFF. I have seen fictions that should have a higher rating, and I have seen some that didn't need to be rated so high. A lot of it is opinion. One person may say this needs to be rated higher, another will say it doesn't. On this, it's pretty much a moot point. All fiction on both sites is gone over by a moderator, and if the staff feels that the content in a fiction needs a higher rating, a note is sent out to the author asking for a change. If it's rated correctly according to the site rules, that's pretty much the end of it.

That being said, here is my advice to you. If you are unsure about a rating, or a fic and it's content, skim over the entire thing before reading. That may spoil a few things for you, but at least you will have a general idea of things to come so you are not shocked or traumatized later. Or, you could always stick to fictions of a lower rating, because that is assuredly safe in that aspect. In my opinion, I don't really think anything else will keep things you don't like from jumping off the page at you in these particular genre's. If you feel something is incorrectly rated, report it to a moderator or admin, and they will work on either getting it changed or explain to you why it will remain as it is.

Well Quality Control is a fairly broad concept. You could be talking about anything really in reference to stories. You could be referring to the quality of the story content, as in the plot, spelling, punctuation, and grammar, or the ability of being able to filter stories via a website's online search engine.

If you're talking about Filtering stories via a search engine. The ability to do that depends on the size of the website, the number of fandoms it covers, the ratings it accepts (K to MA), and the genre of stories it covers (Romance, Comedy etc).

Dokuga is a relatively small archive that covers Inuyasha only, and the pairing is Sess/Kag predominantly. The Filter and Search engine will be relatively smaller and less complex than say AFFNet, or FFNet that are incredibly large, and focus on Multiple fandoms, thus the Filter, and Search engine functions will be much more complex.

The ability to Filter stories based on the genre and rating won't necessarily give you better Quality Control. It simply organizes stories in different ways. Slapping on Warnings won't give you better quality either. It's simply a forethought of the author who might want to give their readers a heads-up on the type of content in their stories, especially if it contains sensitive themes like character demise, or adult content.

It has to be noted that in most cases it's at the Author's discretion to provide warnings. I do this, but generally only if I write in the higher M rating, and it's usually only if I have strong coarse language (usually courtesy of Inuyasha being a potty-mouth) in the ficlet.

Other websites won't necessarily be large enough to warrant the necessity of an online search engine either. So story content there might not be searchable, or even organized by genre tags like Romance, or Comedy, or even by ratings like M or MA. If the site is large like AFFnet or FFNet then its likely that the site will cover multiple fandoms, rather than just Inuyasha with the emphasis on the Sess/Kag pairing on Dokuga. It could be easier or harder to search for specific stories dedicated too or featuring Sess/Kag. It's really a matter of checking the sites out and browsing to see what you can find.

~ Pyre