Hi guys. I just started submitting my art here and on DA. My issue is: I submitted my piece called "Tryst" on DA and, admittedly, forgot the "mature content" warning (which I just corrected here). I was subsequently accused by DA staff of essentially depicting child porn(!). Is my art really that bad? Was someone in the Sess x Kag communities offended by it? I understand if it sucks- I was on hiatus as an artist for many years and just recently decided to put my art out there. I'm really self-critical so I had been afraid of posting anything. And hey, look what happened! Anyway. I have limited resources at the moment and I'm very sensitive to accusations like, "you're a child pornographer." I guess I must've really sucked at drawing Kagome with big enough knockers and wide enough hips to count as a woman "of age." :-P I'll get right on that. Am I crazy? Should I even bother? I am so discouraged. I was working on more pieces and just ordered some decent art equipment. I was really excited to try them out. So yeah. I'm really hurt. I also have a fanfic in the works- should I be wary about that too? I promise to make the rating MA, okay? Have mercy? Anyway, if you guys want to weigh in I'd really appreciate it. Also, feel free to criticize my art- I can take it. I just have problems with people attacking me personally, you know? I love this site and all of you awesome creative-types.
~Nelys

First of all, thank you for making sure you had the appropriate ratings on your stuff!!

Second, things like "you're a child pornographer" would not be allowed on this site as 'critique.' That's a flame. Period. And we have rules regarding flames that tend to be rather stringent... for the flamer. I would hope that, if you receive any criticism of this nature, you bring it to an Admin as soon as possible and let us handle it from there.

Last, not to pardon the misguided soul who said this to you, but you have to remember that there is a contingent among IY fans that firmly believes in ONLY the Inu/Kag pairing, and that Kagome should ALWAYS be portrayed as the 15 year old she was when she fell down the well. Yeah, I know, overly long sentence, but you get the gist, right?

People like that take umbrage with any sexually charged depiction of Kagome, thus they feel free to criticize it when they see it. Fortunately, most of them are purists that don't inhabit this site, so we're pretty safe there. And, like I said, 'critique' of that nature isn't allowed here anyway. I think you'll find that we're all pretty accepting of things of that nature - I think some of the worst flames I've seen have dealt more with grammar and punctuation, LOL!

~~Wiccan~~

The issue with your Tryst work could have been misinterpreted simply because Kagome is depicted in a school uniform, thus the viewers i.e. the DA Staff would have assumed she was underage, likely being the 15 year old, she's depicted as in the manga/anime, and not a consenting adult.

Art is often about perception, how one person sees a piece of artwork, is not how another person will see it.

I myself found nothing wrong with your Tryst artwork. It's actually fairly tame in comparison to some of the raunchier stuff out there, although if you do art again of this nature, even hinting at an adult situation, I would advise you to label it as Mature or as appropriately MA, regardless of whether it's a piece of art or fanfiction.

It is always better to err on the side of caution, especially since you have to consider that art or ficlets incorrectly labelled will be viewable to underage audiences, readers, and viewers. We need to protect our YIMs, even if the oldies among us are of age to be 'Gutter-Marbles'

Even with all of the rules, mistakes happen when artists or fanwriters post their work online. Believe me, I was accused of miss-posting artwork too, years ago now. Mine was fanart that was uploaded into an original art gallery on the Lothlorien art archive. They deleted the 'offending' stuff and sent me a PM about it. Fair enough, although their way of 'explaining' the way that I'd breached the rules wasn't very helpful.

The DA Staff should not have resorted to a flame. You should have been contacted, the breach of rule explained, and coached through making the change. Heck, in their shoes, I would have sent you to the appropriate FAQ section on DA for clarification on how to 'label' artwork correctly.

You made an honest mistake Nelys. I've done it too, even here on Dokuga, when I miss-posted a ficlet in the wrong category, i.e. a drabble as a chapter ficlet. Wiccan helped me to correct that, as I was especially new to Dokuga then too. We've all been there, done it at least a handful of times, so Nelys, please don't feel bad about it.

DA handled it poorly. They could certainly have done better, a lot better. I can't speak for DA, its staff, or even Dokuga, as I am simply a member of both websites and not an Admin or one of their Admin staff. I have, however, managed several rpg groups in the past that dealt with issues like this from posting artwork to fanfiction, to RPG threads that contained Mature content.

We also as a rule required everything of a Mature nature to be properly labelled too. I also got members on occassion miss-labelling fiction, art, and rpg threads. I went through the process of contacting the group-member or members concerned too, explaining the issue, and helped them to resolve it quickly, simply, and efficiently without causing undue distress, or anxiety on both sides.

Back to Wiccan's point though. The DA 'flame' was inappropriate on their part. Nelys, take heart, your art is wonderful. Don't be ashamed about it, just remember if the content is adult in nature, to label it properly in future. The same applies to your fanfiction too.

I mean I don't write MA content, but, I do depict Inuyasha swearing and always calling poor Sesshy a bad name XD. Because of this I always post my work involving Inuyasha as 'Mature' , and slap on a warning of "This fiction contains coarse language i.e swearing. Discretion is advised".

>.> I also tend to be cheeky on occassion too, just for the people that bother to 'read' the warnings, and slap in other stuff like 'This fiction contains kissing, cuddling, and an arrogant youkai on the verge of eviscerating a smart-mouthed hanyou'. Discretion is advised.

Yah I'm terrible. I know, but if someone laughs it's all for the Good.

Nelys, please keep posting your work, art and fiction. Don't be discouraged. If you need help with anything Wiccan, Roo, and Moxy are just a PM away! Plus your fellow Dokugans are here too!

Believe me when I say this, that DA has worse offenders plagiarising art than peeps like you and me unintentionally miss-labelling stuff. Yah I got bit too by Admin/Moderator staff on Lothlorien where I used to have an art gallery, and here LOL, by Wiccan for miss-labelling an old fanfic of mine on Dokuga XD.

It hasn't chased me away. In fact >.> it's encouraged me to stay and be a nuisance to post more art and fanfic for Sesshy x Kags. Ironically.

~ Pyre

Oh, right, Pyre... you are SUCH a nuisance that I practically begged you to stick around!!

Silly Pyre!

Srsly, though, Pyre has some good points. Please try to take the incivility at dA with a grain of salt and don't let it stop you from continuing to post - here, at the least! Yeah, we're not as big as dA, and the feedback is sometimes scant, but we welcome people of all levels and love seeing our members grow in their craft, whether it be arting, writing or both!

~~Wiccan~~

I really really really appreciate your supportive responses. I feel so much better about my work. I started to wonder if maybe I was being disturbingly inappropriate in some way- I mean, Kagome technically starts as a 15-year-old and a lot of fanfic doesn't specify what her age is. I was like, "Whoa. Maybe I AM a pedophile!". Not really. Just got me going there for a second. I was pretty hurt overall. I also thought maybe my art sucked. A lot. :-P

I've been really hesitant to put up any of my work. I was a pretty serious artist years ago- I loved sketching and figure-drawing (less thrilled about painting). I was working on a manga and became an impatient perfectionist so I just gave up. This was about 10 years ago. I've also been a big Sess x Kag fan on and off since then. I found some of my Sesshomaru drawings from 2004 and was like, "Hey! I forgot about that! Maybe I should try this again.". So I am a perfectionist and also shy about sharing my work. That's probably why I was so hurt by the "flame" from DA staff. I wrote a very strongly worded letter in response to theirs so maybe they'll be a bit more merciful when they respond. I probably shouldn't get my hopes up. At the very least I hope I don't get into MORE trouble.

Also, I used to write fanfiction that was pretty well-received at the time and, like my art, I had given up due to impatience and perfectionism. I'm working on that again, too. I'm really excited to be part of the community here, especially since I've been following this site and its members for so long. I'm very pleased that you don't think my art is poop. :-P

From now on, I may decide to post my work solely on this site instead of on DA. Maybe I'll put up some of my "regular" work there if they don't kick me off for being a pedophile. Haha. I crack myself up!

Love you guys- thank you so much for your support!

*sticks head in*

Sounds to me like your art's quality has nothing to do with this. If they decided the work is of a certain type, that has to do with content, not how much they like the picture.

You have to remember that DA is an open forum to everyone producing lots and lots of different kinds of art, unlike Dokuga, which is a pairing-specific site. If you've ever perused DA late at night and let yourself wander then you know they have something of a fetish community, and not all of it's clean. They're probably just paranoid of content rating.

Ultimately, you can't let other people decide your self esteem-- I know that's much easier for me to type than it is for you to do, and it's easy to fall prey to harsh words (plus this ding seemed pretty pointless from them)-- but anyone on the 'net could flame you or rip into your work for any reason... and usually it's boredom and the anonymity the intertubes gives them.

Soo yeah... I'm not sure this was meant as a flame. They probably just thought Kags was young looking in the picture and had a zillion other pics to admin, and decided to cut their workload and just write off the picture. I think all of us have had this random bad experience, but you shouldn't let hurt feelings and paranoia from their part prevent you from getting less exposure and practice, which can only help you.

So, you don't actually know me, but my two cents are basically this-- screw them and the horses they rode in on. Draw what you want.

I've known several artists that have had fan artworks pulled at dA for depicting "sexually explicit scenarios with a minor", especially concerning manga/anime characters. Usually because in canon the female lead is only 15. These are artists who link companion stories where the character in question is an adult and properly rated. It's just their CYA policy, that if the character is considered a minor by US law, any sexually explicit works defunct into "potentially pornographic". They have a far larger demographic to appease, so they have to tread with more care over delicate sensibilities of those viewers.

Most fanartists I know, will simply only post their more explicit fan art on either fan sites or tumblr just to avoid the red tape that comes with dA policies in that regard.

So don't feel alone or singled out, that's just dA being dA.

inali wrote:
I've known several artists that have had fan artworks pulled at dA for depicting "sexually explicit scenarios with a minor", especially concerning manga/anime characters. Usually because in canon the female lead is only 15. These are artists who link companion stories where the character in question is an adult and properly rated. It's just their CYA policy, that if the character is considered a minor by US law, any sexually explicit works defunct into "potentially pornographic". They have a far larger demographic to appease, so they have to tread with more care over delicate sensibilities of those viewers.

Most fanartists I know, will simply only post their more explicit fan art on either fan sites or tumblr just to avoid the red tape that comes with dA policies in that regard.

So don't feel alone or singled out, that's just dA being dA.

Nods,

DA is totally being DA. Wiccan, Inali, and Space have it spot on. Chin up Nelys, although kudos to you too for being courageous to post your work online, art and fiction. I was terrified of doing both on DA and Dokuga XD. I am so totally a perfectionist too.

Actually I'm still terrified of posting my scant Sesshy art here XD, as it's like old. I have new stuff but it's all non-Sesshy so I chuck it elsewhere.

LOL Thanks Wiccan! Being a nuisance is fun! *wags tail and slobbers like an inu-puppy*.

Np Nelys, Dokuga is rife with Sesshy's gaggle of admirers from everywhere, including Jaken who follows his tail like a little chihuahua. >.> Which is kind of like making me real envious right now.

Welcome aboard! XD!

~ Pyre