I'm doing this while my power is out, I'm risking my computer using it while on a generator, but this needs to be said:

In the past two days, I have had to delete the profiles of TWO minors on this site.

Why?

Despite having been warned, despite being told that they would only get ONE warning, despite the fact that they knew we could track their activity on the site, they STILL accessed material above their age rating. Please, DO NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE.

I don't take a great deal of enjoyment in deleting people from our site and telling them that they're no longer welcome here. Srsly. Please, if you are underage (under 18), don't think that you can sneak by and access this stuff without anyone knowing or caring!

Please don't make me delete you and all your stories and/or art!!

~~Wiccan~~

poor Wiccan. It sucks to be the "bad guy," but you are doing us all a favor, and keeping the kiddo's safe. As a mom I respect and appreciate you all the more for it.

xoxoxoxoxoxo!!!!!!

MoxyMikki wrote:
poor Wiccan. It sucks to be the "bad guy," but you are doing us all a favor, and keeping the kiddo's safe. As a mom I respect and appreciate you all the more for it.

xoxoxoxoxoxo!!!!!!

Thank you, m'dear! It sort of goes against the grain for me to be so strict about the ratings, but it is necessary for the site's continued existence. If only ONE parent suddenly discovered that their darling was accessing this stuff, we could be wiped off the interwebs at the drop of a lawsuit. NOT my idea of a good time, y'know?

There are so many people who look to this site for enjoyment, I would be remiss in my duty as an Admin if I didn't do all I could to protect it.

~~Wiccan~~

You did what you had to do in this situation, but it's also the responsibility of the parents to monitor what their children do and see on the internet. That's why all computers with internet come with the PARENTAL CONTROL option and they should all use it, especially when the children are MINORS.

DemonQueen17 wrote:
You did what you had to do in this situation, but it's also the responsibility of the parents to monitor what their children do and see on the internet. That's why all computers with internet come with the PARENTAL CONTROL option and they should all use it, especially when the children are MINORS.

'Tis quite true!! I always viewed it that way myself when my children were minors. If I didn't monitor, I certainly couldn't gripe, right? Unfortunately, there are many who abdicate that responsibility... which saddens me terribly, as well as endangers sites like ours.

*sigh* Eh, I figure that it's always been this way, really, it's just that we hear more about it with the advent of instant and wide-ranging access to news. The world isn't necessarily getting worse, we just hear more about it, ne?

~~Wiccan~~

This is why I don't even let my kids on the comp- and on the rare occasion that I do, I'm like right over their shoulder the entire time, 'cause even with parental blocks and such, there's still things that for whatever reason no one is monitoring so stuff your kids shouldn't see- heck, stuff you shouldn't see- slips through the cracks. I don't want to leave the room to say, go to the bathroom, and come back to find one of my sons seeing something inappropriate.

It really isn't a job you should have to do, but I know some parents think that because they've already 'taken precautions' they can kick back and let their kids do whatever they want on the internet. It isn't fair that you are needed to step in because someone else is frankly not doing their job, but I think there's enough moms & aunts & big sisters on this site that we all understand and appreciate what you have to do.

*hugs*

I support your villainy with all my heart! I remember being a miscreant on FF.net when i was in my early teens, and accessing stuff I had no business seeing. In retrospect, I wish I hadn't...some of that stuff seriously warped my brain-circuits, and not in very nice ways. (Evidence can be found in my crackfics...I even manged to shock r0o with one of 'em!)

So go on deleting mercilessly, because SOMEONE has to tell these kids that some rules are to be followed and certain wishes must be respected. This isn't a porn site, despite the abundant number of lemons and limes that we post here! And treating those pieces as a bit of titillation is equivalent to being highly disrespectful to the author, and cheapening his/her work. This is something that's always bugged me. We may not all be professional authors here (ppl like Dany are an exception, ne?), but our work is sacred to us all the same.

Lastly, I don't want Dokuga removed from the net because some silly kid is being inconsiderate! Maybe you could post the reason why minors are so strictly monitored on the rules page, so that they get an idea of the potential damage and loss their actions can cause? Cuz unless you're a complete monster, I'm sure that knowing your carelessness and refusal to act your age could ruin a good thing for many people and destroy years of their work and love would make you think fifty times before you go and click that MA story open.

And if you still do it - you are a total monster and deserve to be birched out on your behind by a baton-brandishing banshee we all know and love and fear as Wiccan.

Fear the almighty baton, whipper-snappers! ( sorry, Wiccan, couldn't help it)

LOL!! You guys are AWESOME SAUCE, with extra sweetness! Thanks so much for the support, you have no idea how much I appreciate it. Sometimes, I think everyone here views me as that mean, nasty person who gripes about their mistakes, so to have your support really means a lot.

And, naqaashi, I DO point out to all the minors just how much they endanger our site when they receive their first, and only, warning. I make it clear that they will only receive ONE warning because of the severity of the consequences we would all have to face.

As we all know, though, most people don't take the time to read the rules carefully, if they even scan them. *sigh* I have evidence of that on a daily basis, lol! Still, hope springs eternal, and all that jazz, right?

~~Wiccan~~

Well, it's not just an issue of only skimming the rules. It's also that in some cases, they really think they won't get caught, or that because they're only a tiny part of a big problem it won't be easy for you to single them out because of how many people are breaking whatever rule it is.

Long story short- they want what they want when they want it and consequences aren't real until they actually happen.

You're only reacting within necessity and doing what needs to be done to keep Dokuga a trouble free playground for all of us.

@ Naqaashi- I know what you mean. >_> Not about being an underage ff.net lurker, lol, I didn't even get into the fanfiction scene 'til I was already in my 20's, but I did have readers that I just knew weren't old enough to be reading my stuff and it actually made me, as the author, feel a li'l dirty, and not in the fun way. I've had to post warnings on my ff.net profile about the content of my work (everything I write has some level of citrus in it somewhere) because I don't want any trouble and I know that people that shouldn't be reading M rated things on that site still do. Same goes for my fictionpress.com profile- and those are original works I'm hoping to publish someday- I don't feel like I should have to catch crap because people don't want to follow, or even learn the rules of the site they're on. I feel like if it's rated than I shouldn't have to feel a need to add an extra warning, but it's not monitored and it doesn't matter what I say even if they are my works, people, age regardless are gonna read whatever they want to if they can access it and when the site doesn't actively monitor whose accessing what sort of material, it's the person posting the work that gets in trouble.

So yeah, once more, thank you Wiccan- for understanding such things and protecting all of our literary butts.

-huggles-

If they had been warned yet still kept up then more power to you, and I support you 100 percent! I have two small girls and I let my oldest on the internet but I always am standing behind her shoulder to make sure she isn't looking or doing something bad. Some parents need to really monitor what their kids do on the internet.

I have no children of my own, but I do have grandnieces and grandnephews that I love and want protected from themselves. Wiccan, you know that I am behind you 100%. You work so hard on our site and do so much that we don't even know about! I think you are the definition of awesomesauce!

Rowdys girl wrote:
I have no children of my own, but I do have grandnieces and grandnephews that I love and want protected from themselves. Wiccan, you know that I am behind you 100%. You work so hard on our site and do so much that we don't even know about! I think you are the definition of awesomesauce!



Thank you, dear friend... but I suspect you are just a teensy bit biased, lol! The sentiment is greatly appreciated all the same, though!!

~~me~~

Wiccan, you have a thankless job and it's never fun, just usually garnering you nothing but headaches, this i know well (I've passed several onto you over your time in the position). It's never easy and it never gets any easier but it's something that is needed. Without you doing your job, there would be no Dokuga. For that, I give you a bow...

For everyone else, help make her job easier and familiarize yourself with the rules and follow them. Along with that, authors of M and MA rated stuff, check your reviews and look at profiles of those leaving them. If you find a minor reading your stuff, report them. You're not being a tattle tale, you're making Wiccan's job a lot easier on her and protecting the site. All it takes is one report by one parent outraged over what their precious little snowflake is reading to get this place shut down.

I know sometimes it is hard to be the disciplinarian but you did what you had to do and shouldn't feel bad about it. (I know that it is easier said than done) You have my full support both as the parent of a ten year old and a fellow dokugan. Not only are you protecting those underaged teens, whether they realize it or not sometimes that stuff can come back to haunt you,but also the rest of us on this site. I think some don't realize the trouble they could cause others by their actions, like the site getting shut down for violations like that. I also agree that unfortunately some parents don't watch as closely as maybe they should if they have children that use the computer. My son is now starting to use computers in school and a lot of his homework is research that he needs the computer for. Now I have a longer desk and two chairs side by side because when he is on the computer I stuck to him like glue. Even with parental blocks some things pop up. But to get back on point know you have my support and thanks for the ,what I am sure is a heavy load, job of monitering this site.

Monitoring reviews - that's a great idea...and I wonder why we lazy bums didn't think of it before! I'm going to start doing it from now on, as I have stuff that even a few adults have refused to see, and I do not want any kid (or any kid's parents) getting brain-bleached because of it.

I do have a question though - unlike you Goddesses of the Moderator kind, we humble authors don't have email access and whatever assorted sneaky Godly powers (read internet cheats) you use to glean the true ages of people on the site. But if there are any pointers you could give us, which would help us guesstimate how old our reviewers are, then I'd be very grateful!

naqaashi wrote:
Monitoring reviews - that's a great idea...and I wonder why we lazy bums didn't think of it before! I'm going to start doing it from now on, as I have stuff that even a few adults have refused to see, and I do not want any kid (or any kid's parents) getting brain-bleached because of it.

I do have a question though - unlike you Goddesses of the Moderator kind, we humble authors don't have email access and whatever assorted sneaky Godly powers (read internet cheats) you use to glean the true ages of people on the site. But if there are any pointers you could give us, which would help us guesstimate how old our reviewers are, then I'd be very grateful!

See? That would be the hardest part of having the authors monitor their reviews. They have no way of knowing who is or is not a minor, unless someone just blurts it out, or otherwise displays the sort of immaturity that gives it away (stuff like chat or text-speak, getting overly excited, or overly interested in the mature aspects of the story).

In all cases, though, even if you just SUSPECT that your reviewer MIGHT be a minor, please bring it to me. I have the tools to research thoroughly and will ONLY act if I can verify that someone is underage.

While I appreciate Danyealle's thoughtfulness in pointing out the possibility, I understand that it would be nigh unto impossible for most of you. Still, the thought, along with all the other warm fuzzies I've gotten today, is so VERY appreciated - you'll never know how much!!

~~Wiccan~~
PS - Three more minors got deleted this evening...

Glad to help...working for food and all that...

and as for the P.s. - Say it with a smile, because you just taught three idiots a lesson that they'll probably thank you for when they don't turn out to be porn addicts or something.

::huggles you::

Oh... o.0

Lucky I'm 18 now!! *^_^*

UtterChaos247 wrote:
Oh... o.0

Lucky I'm 18 now!! *^_^*

Indeed you are!!! Congratulations on joining the adult world... at least the adult world at Dokuga is fun, unlike the real one!

~~Wiccan~~

Being 18 is fun. Being 21 is even more fun. Being nearly 24 sux!

And I agree the the strictness. Though when I was once young and innocent (scoffs loudly), I was one of those who went around and read fan ficcys I probably shouldn't have. I think I was like 14-15 when I first read an R-rated fanfiction, naughty me. But looking on it, when I have kids, and when they are that age, and I find out they did that, I'd probably beat them senseless.

I was never one to agree with parental controls. I prefer to trust that they will do the right thing the first time from being told what is "right" and "wrong," what is "proper" and what is "morally and ethically questionable" and trust they take that lesson to heart. Get caught and, for lack of better term, all hell will break lose. As Bill Cosby says, "The beatings will now begin!"

Looking back on it now, I definately wasn't ready for such things, although I probably should have been far less naive than I was. Should being the key word here. My fiance and I have a really funny story about my naivety. It is really amusing and shows just how far behind on the "social ladder" I was. Oh well.

But here is one thing I firmly believe in: if you do not keep tabs on what your children watch, see, or read, you have NO right to blaim the "author/creator". They have every right to post what they wish so long as they provide a "caution, view at your own discretion." Just because one is ashamed their kids were caught doing something wrong doesn't mean they should try to blaim everyone BUT the one who did the wrong. It is what is partially wrong with today's world.

But I have a curiousity question though. I know you do not have to be signed in to view any of the fiction or artwork, so how do you monitor minors if they are not signed into an account?

You did what you had to, and if you warned then they have no right to complain. You are just trying to keep those that would cost us this site from actually doing so and for one I am thankful for it.

There are some parents that dont care what their kids watch,as long as they are not botherig them they feel let em watch or read what they want. Then there are some that follow a nudist lifestyle and feel it is nothing to allow their kids to view this stuff, its not that they don't care persay, it is that some get really defensive if you tell them how to parent.

I admit to letting my kids watch some rated r stuff, but I have limits on what is allowed, no nudity what so ever, no innuendo that they can understand, pretty much nothing that depicts sex, cept the almost 18 yr old, I realize that with her fiance being 21, she is going to go see what he wants and since she is almost 18. I am lucky though in the fact that she is a bit of a prude and hates nudity lol. My kids watch alot of horror movies, well the middle and oldest , the youngest wont watch something that scares him, he is smart enough to change the channel, or leave the room if others are watching it.

I would go nuts if this site closed it is one of the only ones I go to online, and some of the friends on here that I have made are irreplaceable. So you guys keep up the good work and don't let having to be a hardcase get to you, you are doing it for a good reason.

Atailpha wrote:


But I have a curiousity question though. I know you do not have to be signed in to view any of the fiction or artwork, so how do you monitor minors if they are not signed into an account?

Mwahahahaha... I'll never tell!!!

Oops, got carried away with TEH EVOL OGRE routine. Actually, we have ways of finding and tracking IP addresses and what they access around the site. Handy, huh? Aside from that, I cannot divulge my sources!

~~Wiccan~~

kori wrote:

I admit to letting my kids watch some rated r stuff, but I have limits on what is allowed, no nudity what so ever, no innuendo that they can understand, pretty much nothing that depicts sex, cept the almost 18 yr old, I realize that with her fiance being 21, she is going to go see what he wants and since she is almost 18. I am lucky though in the fact that she is a bit of a prude and hates nudity lol. My kids watch alot of horror movies, well the middle and oldest , the youngest wont watch something that scares him, he is smart enough to change the channel, or leave the room if others are watching it.

My children and I talked about what they saw. We watched everything together. They had to convince me that it wouldn't give them nightmares or ideas, lol. I never restricted their reading material, but I did place one condition on it: They had to come to me with any - ANY - questions they might have had. By giving them that freedom, and joining their TV & video viewing, it must have satisfied them. Neither one of my kids turned to the internet for their amusement! And neither of them showed much interest in "mature" materials... violence, yes. Porn, no.

They used the internet for research and email, but that's mostly all I can remember them doing online before they were of age. And, yes, I was right there - because we only HAD one computer... and that baby was MINE!!!!!!!!!

I commend you, kori, for being the kind of mom that gives the kids a little rope, but recognizes that she has to monitor that stuff. Mom-hood is such a HUGE responsibility, isn't it?

~~Wiccan~~

In regards to Danyealle-sama's thoughts- yes, absolutely we, as the authors, can try our best to keep track of those who are reading our work by checking profiles of reviewers, but that's kind of where our ability to help out ends. Not everyone that reads stories leaves a review- this is something we all know >_<- and even those that do, all we have to go on if we check them out is what they say on their profile, and there's no way for us to know if that person is lying or not about their age, if they even state it, it's no longer as simple as trying to figure out someone's age from how they act or the way they conduct themselves.