I've been wondering this from a fanfic reader point of view. Are there fics you looked into because the plot sounded interesting, but yet the grammar wasn't the best so you gave up on it? Just how bad do things have to be to make it unreadable? What mistakes are tolerable and don't distract from the story at all?

I'm just very curious because losers like me didn't always edit my work and when I go back and look at old fics I want to gag myself for it, but yet the story seemed to get a lot of hits despite it's flaws. When I updated one years later I even went back and edited the first chapter a little in fear new readers would see the grammar in the first chapter and be turned off.

I don't think I'm that big of a grammar nazi who can be distracted while reading other people's work, but I don't read stories where there is misspellings or errors in the story's actual description. If they didn't put in the effort to entice me then I won't be enticed.

I have looked into stories that have poor grammar . . . say, the plot was interesting, but even the grammar in the summary was a li'l off (I'm a stickler for these things, even with novels, I will put them down and have to take a moment before going back if I notice a typo that is really glaring, but the editor somehow managed to miss) I've gone and read the reviews and will usually give it the benefit of the doubt.

I used to do proof-reading when I was a teenager for my best friend V who was forever writing short stories- her ideas were brilliant, but her spelling was terrible. So, I'm used to poor spelling, that I can handle. When a sentence or paragraph is to the point that I think I'm misinterpretting what they're describing, or the grammar is so poor that I can't focus on the story that's being told, that's when I have to close that page and say 'I'm sorry, I tried'.

And, I swear to the heavens, Toko, don't make me slap you- didn't I tell you to stop being so hard on yourself? As stated, I'm a stickler for errors (barring intentionally writing the way people speak, 'cause no one speaks using 'proper grammar') and I go back and comb over my stuff all the time and constantly find slip-ups . . . and we're talking on things that I posted years ago, or that I've already gone over a dozen times and thought I found every error.

What you have to realize about fanfiction readers is that a great many of them are writers, as well, and they will, for the most part, understand if they come across typos or mispellings. The most you might find if they come across something that they really think should be brought to your attention is that they will usually point out the specific thing in their review. What I normally do- because I inevitably miss something that others gloss over, but I feel is just 'so obvious'- is slip in a quick A/N on most of my chapters stating that rereading for corrections was not done.

If you want to nip problems like this one in the bud, you can always post to the forum asking for someone to beta for you.

I've been reading your stories for a long time, and, while I HAVE noticed a lack of editing, it has not turned me off. Consistent, really bad spelling and grammar problems have turned me off from some fanfics, however. Stopped me dead in my tracks. I agree that it is particularly off-putting when the story summary is full of spelling and grammatical errors! The reason I find your writing so readable, and the thing that keeps me wishing for updates, is that your writing is so vivid. The characters seem very real, and the situations they get into are just so danged interesting. It is obvious that you either put a lot more effort into plot and characterization than editing, or you are just plain brilliant, and those parts of writing come more easily to you than spelling and grammar. Either way, it is this special quality that makes me appreciate your stories. Keep on truckin!

Awwwwww I feel so awesome now

The truth is behind my editing
The awful truth

I'm so excited when my story is done, I don't want to take the time tracking down a beta reader, and I hate reading something I just wrote (I totally enjoy rereading them a few years later though) so I'm like. "FFFFF what makes could I have possibly made? SUBMIT. NOW COME TO ME POSITIVE FEEDBACK!!!! *refreshes traffic button*"

And this is my character flaw
but recently 'omg the whole 2 updates I've made this year' I've been looking over my work again

I'm one of those weird people who writes different words than what I mean

I'm kinda the same as you, Tama. I. don't. edit.

After I've been working on the chapter for weeks and when I know it by heart, I don't want to re-read through it all again. I'd probably have to let it cool down for yet another week so I could look at it with "fresh eyes"... But I'd hate to keep my readers waiting for that.

So in the end, I don't really edit it at all, I'll send it off to my beta and trust her to do that for me. ^^;

TamashaToko wrote:
The truth is behind my editing
The awful truth

I'm so excited when my story is done, I don't want to take the time tracking down a beta reader

Lol- I'm actually exactly the same, I want to post the chapter the second I type that last period and hit 'save'.

I am definitely willing to overlook a bit of grammar problems for a good story. I'm extremely, extremely picky with the stories I read, but I'd much rather sacrifice perfect grammar for a great plot than great grammar with no plot.

Granted I appreciate all the work betas do and I really appreciate when the author takes time to edit their own story or have it edited for them, but it's not a deal breaker... always.

Please, though, do not use l33t speak and or plz or other such words in your fiction. I will.. cry. Salty tears of despair. When at least apparent effort to have good grammar is made, that is usually good enough for me.

But for the love of all that is holy, please make sure your story summary is as close to perfect as possible! That will turn me away like no other. A summary isn't that many words and it makes or break whether I will even open the link to check it out (depending on severity). Presentation is key! A good summary pulls me in like a moth to a flame. Or me to Hisoka. HURR.

Fox wrote:
Please, though, do not use l33t speak and or plz or other such words in your fiction. I will.. cry. Salty tears of despair. When at least apparent effort to have good grammar is made, that is usually good enough for me.


OMG, lmao- okay, this is only semi-related, but Fox made me remember it and given what's being said in this thread, I think other people can appreciate it. I received this review a while ago, and it was a pleasant enough review . . . 'til I got to the end where the person made the observation that I had some grammatical errors in the chapter. Okay, I was aware, I wouldn't have thought anything more of it except . . . the review was in l33t speak. *headdesk* Yup, an entire paragraph of it. I just . . . I didn't know if I wanted to laugh or tear my hair out.

Zomg on that topic *quick rant* I might come down on myself again, but when you get reviews from people, and they are horrible spellers while critiquing you. Lolz it isn't a confidence booster for me.

Can I use internet speak when the characters are in modern times and talking to each other in a chatroom, or is it just annoying and out of character?

Fox wrote:

But for the love of all that is holy, please make sure your story summary is as close to perfect as possible! That will turn me away like no other. A summary isn't that many words and it makes or break whether I will even open the link to check it out (depending on severity). Presentation is key! A good summary pulls me in like a moth to a flame. Or me to Hisoka. HURR.

I'm so terrible at summaries it's not even funny. I agree, a good summary can really pull in the readers.

I'm trying to edit my old completed stories right now and when I read through the chapters my only thought it 'D: Why did people even review this!?! It's terrible' Actually I don't even remember half the stuff I wrote, it's like..it doesn't seem as though it came from my mind or is my writing Kind of weird.


Anyways- Editing stories to me feels like a chore, which is bad since I know it needs to be done. Structure and POV that is used can turn me away from reading a story, I'm not wonderful with grammar-I make a lot of mistakes in my own writing with it, so I feel like I really have no room to judge others for that matter or be super picky with it.

TamashaToko wrote:
Zomg on that topic *quick rant* I might come down on myself again, but when you get reviews from people, and they are horrible spellers while critiquing you. Lolz it isn't a confidence booster for me.

Can I use internet speak when the characters are in modern times and talking to each other in a chatroom, or is it just annoying and out of character?

I've not seen it done, personally, but I do recall reading this question before and it seemed pretty generally accepted that a modern setting or AU story in which the characters are talking in a chat room or via text then it's acceptable, but only during 'those' specific exchanges.

TamashaToko wrote:
Zomg on that topic *quick rant* I might come down on myself again, but when you get reviews from people, and they are horrible spellers while critiquing you. Lolz it isn't a confidence booster for me.

Can I use internet speak when the characters are in modern times and talking to each other in a chatroom, or is it just annoying and out of character?

I dunno, I also see the irony in someone typing badly to correct your spelling, but if they're right you can at least improve yourself, haha. And then make fun of them in your mind.

Oh don't worry, just like everything else these certainly aren't rules regarding this stuff! Don't stop doing something because you think it's bad. I'm just saying something that would turn me personally away. I just mean the actual storytelling part probably should be spoken as such, but as an author it's your decision what you'd like to do.

Welp I'm off to edit a chapter of mine

My beta reader isn't on skype

What is up with that

Doesn't he know I need him to be present of all hours of the day?

Pfffft time to turn all your into you're and get my It's and its right

The things I do....

How dare he!

ffffff I found someone else to do it, someone I don't even know that well because that's how much I hate reading my own work right after reading it

All I had to do was throw a fit on Tumblr til someone did it

Goes to show you children, TANTRUMS WORK

Provided the ficlet is mostly legible I'd be very likely to read it. Minor spelling mistakes are okay, but it can be harder to read if there is poor punctuation, and grammar. The layout of the text too can be challenging if its all in one big block, and not broken down into either paragraphs, or into lines of text. After that it would be characters, the plot, and the 'tone' of the story that likely interested me or not. I like to be open minded about reading ficlets, but yeah it's the difference between the story being memorable, or not. If I'm 'hooked in' to reading, I'll come back time and again just to see what happens XD, regardless.

~ Pyre

It depends for me, I mean if I find the story absolutely amazing I can get past small grammatical errors, and I read so fast that I miss most spelling mistakes... However, even if the story is the best one out there but every other word is misspelled and there is horrible punctuation, then I have to stop reading it and won't return, even after it's been corrected.

Then there are some, where the error's though not glaring are still there and I can just skip over them, those stories I'll read if interested. However, as of late it's getting harder and harder to find one that is finished.

I will agree with you on the summary though, if it has misspellings in it then I more than likely won't read it. Even though I myself am not a grammar nazi, not as I used to be I am still a stickler for proper grammar, especially when writing. It's something that was drilled into me by my latin teacher and it's something that even today I speak and attempt to write with proper grammar. Although, it's easier to just type as we talk it is harder to understand sometimes.

From the Phishy POV, only. The views and opinions expressed by the Phishy do not reflect those of the rest of Dokuga! LOL

There are times when the plot summary has reeled me in, but I gave up after before the end of the first chapter.

Such things as:

No quotation marks around speech. If I'm unable to tell what is being said and by whom, I give up. It draws away from the story.
The "wall of text" story. I love long paragraphs. But when the chapter itself is one looooooooong paragrah, you don't have time to mentally breathe. Also, a lot harder to find your place again when you pause during reading.
CAPLOCK CRUISE CONTROL or capital-free zone. This one is a pet peeve. It's OK in posts on forums, chatting and such but it urks the dickens out of me in a story.
Extreme purple prose.
Chat/text speak or "he/she" looks like ____ celebrity. It send me into "riff" territory. Unless it is a spoof/crack fic, then have at it.
If the summary just lists the facts and nothing else. Ex: A song fic. And that is all the summary is. Nothing else to reel me in.
Or on the other hand, the summary has nothing to do with the story.
Or there is no summary. My mind screams, "IT'S A TRAP!"
The summary itself has extreme spelling errors or errors on simple words.
And finally, the story is littered with Authors notes throughout, which is about random or unneeded info.
If a cannon character had become a MarySue or GaryStu, or extreme author hating of a character is blinking at you like a neon sign. Character bashing is ok in crackfics as well as blantant OOC-ing, but to me they only belong in crackfics or where it shows how the character is "not-well".

But then again, that is just me. I have only come across a handful of storys that fit this profile enough to make me reach for the headache pills and turn off my computer. Luckily those fics are far and few in between here. Dokuga has too many tools and betas at hand, which is a blessing to those of us who NEED them.

I know my limits and mistakes.I'm bad at grammer errors. Where do I put the comma? Does this sound right? Stop me before I prose again!

@ phishbon3s LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

If there are many mistakes in the summary then I usually pass on the story. I am willing to overlook most other grammer and spelling mistakes as long as I am able to follow the storyline.

Has anyone ever read How Stella Got Her Groove Back by Terry McMillan? I really enjoyed reading it but she was really bad to not add commas. I remember one part she was describing all the different foods on a buffet. I had to slow down so I could make sense of her sentences because at first my poor little brain was trying to figure out what exactly a fish chicken ham steak was.

cakeiton wrote:
@ phishbon3s LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Bwahahahahahahhahahahaha! Exactly how it sounded in my head! Thankies cake!

It takes a lot for me to back off of an interesting fic. If the plot is good, and the characterizations are good, I can overlook a lot of grammar or spelling mistakes. I've actually gotten quite used to a lot of them. Especially wrong words like defiantly instead of definitely. I see that one a lot.

I guess I am more tolerant because I dated a guy in high school who was dyslexic. Even after we stopped dating, I would help him proofread his papers. I got really good at deciphering his writing. At first I would have to have him read aloud so that I knew what he was writing. But then I got used to it and we made a great team. His papers were amazing. He just had to struggle to get it on paper the way he wanted it. (In my day, the teachers were inexperienced with dyslexia and the students had to keep up or fail on their own.)

When I entered the business world, I encountered the typo. Those who don't work with the written word would be surprised how many people send out memos, letters, etc., and don't bother to proofread them. Those that are in such an environment could probably swap stories.

One thing I have noticed that makes me very sad. Not so much here as on ff.net, I find that non-native English speakers have a much better grasp of grammar and spelling than some native English speakers. Perhaps it is a statement on our school systems compared to other countries. Or perhaps it speaks of the intelligence level of the writer whose first language is not English. Lord knows I wish I was smart enough to speak more than one language.

I have to say it's all about the story. Give me a good one and I'll forgive almost anything. But if the story itself doesn't hook me pretty quick, I'll abandon it. Grammatically correct or not. As some one pointed out in an earlier post, I have paid money for books that had glaring errors. If I enjoyed the story, then I didn't regret a single cent of the money I spent.

The only thing I absolutely will not give a chance (and I'm sorry if this includes anyone reading this) is a summary that reads..."I suck at summaries. Just click. I'm promising you a pretty good story." I'm sorry. If you can't come up with some sort of summary that involves no more than a couple of lines, why on Earth would I think you can deliver an entire story?

Give it a try at least. If you can write a story, you can write a summary. All it takes is a line or two that lets the reader know what your story is about. It may not be the most brilliant summary ever written, but more readers will give it a chance if you at least give them something to spark their interest.

Grammatical mistakes, I can live with. As with the general consensus, I am willing to overlook minor misgrievances in lieu of a fantastic plotline. In fact, if the story is good enough, then the speed at which I read will make me gloss-over the errors (as in, I didn't even see them).

Aside from terrible, numerous, glaring mistakes, it's the plotline or the writing style that has the potential to turn me off of a story. Being out of a character is a good one - you may have a great idea for a plotline, but if you can't make the characters fit into it than I'm just not interested. Some people don't mind a little OCCness, but I do.

As for the summary, I agree with what most others have said. Write one: it's the MAIN thing that draws readers to your story. I don't click on stories with grammatical mistakes in the summary; however, I also don't click on summaries that outline the plot for you. The summary is for hooking, at least in my eyes, and should not give away every plot twist.

I feel that i could possible go for contender in the middle weight championship of being a greedy reader/reviewer. I know i'm not at the top, but i know that i am nothing to shake a stick at either.

Honestly i think if you can bring about a captivating plot thats enough to grab my attention, then i'll read it. BUT that's not to say i haven't just stopped reading fics before, for horrible everything.

One of my most favorite Xover fics, of all time, is riddled with random AN's, POV changes that are even more random, you often cant tell when her random AN starts/stops and the fic begins. AND she has 1000 - 1500 chapters. It's a headache that if the fic wasnt so freaking awesome i would despise her for.

I've actually even offered to fix it so that it was more reader friendly. I said it nicely but she never got back to me. It's 56k long too! manages to take a manga thats hardly compatible with IY and makes it work! i freaking LOVE IT!

I think it all depends on the readers tolerance level. Sometimes, some people no matter what will tell you what you did wrong, and that it would be so much better if you fixed tiny mistakes. but if you have Course instead of Coarse, or there, their and they're while i can get annoying those aren't enough to stop me.

Time on my hands wrote:
The only thing I absolutely will not give a chance (and I'm sorry if this includes anyone reading this) is a summary that reads..."I suck at summaries. Just click. I'm promising you a pretty good story." I'm sorry. If you can't come up with some sort of summary that involves no more than a couple of lines, why on Earth would I think you can deliver an entire story?

*Throws arms in air* Hallelujah! You said it!

Ahem... I do think it is important to remember grammar is a sticky business. People forget that language is not concrete. It's fluid and changes with the times. One person's way of doing things is not always the same as another's but they can still BOTH be correct depending on their sources.

In fanfiction, I like to think I'm fairly forgiving unless I get the feeling the writer:
1. Did not bother to use spell at all
2. Did not even consider peeking at grammarcheck
(I realize both these wonderful tools are not perfect but they are still EXTREMELY useful)
3. Uses text speak* continually within the story even though the characters aren't actually texting. There's no excuse for abusing this. It just reads as lazy, at least to me. And to be fair I've tried to read stories that are overrun with it and just recalling the experience makes my blood pressure spike.
4. Didn't bother to check their work before publishing. Taking the time to read your story out loud will eliminate many of the common errors (ie verb tenses, subject verb agreement, and such)that plague papers. I'm sure everyone has read something aloud and naturally 'edited' it to suit their tastes. The same goes with personal writing. You'll naturally correct as you read. It just takes practice and a willingness to reread what you've written.

Sorry, cakeiton, I didn't clarify this.
Text speak: lol or emoticons, the shorthand used when writing a text message